Hello! As an avid MCU and Spider-Verse fan, I've really enjoyed your evaluation of multiverse storytelling here and the big question of whether or not it leaves room for God. I have a few talking points/questions:
- What do you make of the MCU's afterlife? We've seen the Ancestral Plane in Black Panther, Valhalla (briefly) in the post-credits scene of Thor: Love and Thunder, and a take on the Egyptian afterlife in Moon Knight (and some further explanation). From what I know, it all seems to boil down to a mix-up of "whatever religion you are, you have your afterlife" and no one thinks twice about it. Knowing that an afterlife does exist, though, while Arishem is the supposed "creator" of the universe does raise some questions in my mind. In the MCU, the Celestials are definitely physical beings (yk, one's about to be born out of Earth), so I'm not entirely sure how he could have created a spiritual afterlife. Maybe this will be cleared up? Not sure.
- Another piece to the puzzle I find interesting is Ms. Marvel. While there's not a lot of focus on the subject, the MCU does acknowledge and support the idea that Islam (and, therefore, people who believe in an all-powerful God) exists in-universe and that the Khan family isn't ridiculous for actively believing and praying. I think there are even a few fleeting jokes in The Marvels about praying for safety during the third-act finale, and it's ambiguous if there's an impact. Regardless, the family does finish the film all in one piece, so . . . Anyway, there's not an extensive discussion of it, but at least the MCU does acknowledge somewhere that believing in the all-powerful, Judeo-Christian God isn't ridiculous. That is, until She-Hulk and Deadpool make us look stupid by pointing out the fact that the MCU is just a huge entertainment franchise and then we question why we care to answer these questions so much in the first place ("I'm the Marvel Jesus!" - Deadpool)
- I highly recommend watching as much of What If . . .? as you can. The first season has an interesting exploration of the multiverse and asks the question of whether there should be multiversal interference. The second season is also the first piece of MCU media to my knowledge that actually touches upon the "incursion" idea introduced in Multiverse of Madness.
Thanks! I can't wait to read the next installments!
Thanks for the thoughtful comments, Ronan! FWIW, my thoughts on the MCU afterlife are coming! I think you are largely right about MCU afterlife relativism—with notable exceptions, like the poor last worshiper of Rapu played by Christian Bale in Thor: Love and Thunder, who becomes the God Butcher! Rapu laughs in his face and tells him that his hopes for reward in the afterlife are vain. Why is Valhalla there for Jane Foster but the paradise that Rapu’s followers believe in isn’t there for them?
Daredevil (despite his limited MCU presence so far) is Catholic, and Steve Rogers appears to be Protestant (a reasonable guess made official by the code on his dog tags!), so Christianity exists in the MCU. Ms. Marvel is Muslim, and Moon Knight is Jewish. So there’s some representation from every strand of Abrahamic religion. Thankfully, “the big JC” does NOT appear in the pan-pantheon of deities seen in Omnipotence City, which means one thing as a business decision, but can be interpreted in different ways as a storytelling decision…
And yes, I am now really regretting starting this series with no familiarity with the What If…? series (the comics, I know well, from back in the day at least).
I hope I don't come off as nit-picky., but you might want to be more careful when referring to Our Lord as "the big JC." I know you don't mean it that way, but some would consider that flippant and even irreverent (I personally know such a person). You are a Catholic deacon after all, so please try to be more conscientious. Thank you.
P.S. I hope you don't mind all the comments I have posted for this article. I guess I had a lot to say.
I welcome all your comments, Christopher! I’m working really hard on this series, and it’s gratifying as a writer for a reader to be that engaged with his work and the subject matter.
I agree that “the big JC” is a flippant phrase, and one I would never use in ordinary conversation! In this specific context, I meant it to evoke, not my own idiom or way of thinking, but how agnostic filmmakers like “Thor: Love and Thunder” director Taika Waititi might think about including Jesus in a pan-pantheon of deities in Omnipotence City. (I added scare quotes to the phrase to make that a bit clearer.)
Great comment! Thank you for mentioning the praying in The Marvels. I was delightfully stunned when I saw that in the film. However, I haven't seen Ms. Marvel's series or Moon Knight or the second season of What If... (even though I wanted to). I also didn't see She-Hulk's show or Deadpool's movies but I know that kind of meta humor is from their comic books. As for Deadpool's comment about being "the Marvel Jesus," there's just no excuse. It's stuff like that that makes me glad I avoided his films. I'm still wrestling with whether or not I will be seeing Deadpool and Wolverine.
I also wanted to mention the spiritual elements in Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3. There's the High Evolutionary, a villain that will do anything to create the "perfect being", who angrily says that there is no God so he had to step in. There's also the (questionable) use of imagery from the Sistine Chapel when Adam Warlock saves Star-Lord. Even my non-religious friend (who was raised Catholic) remarked that the animals fleeing into Knowhere to safety was reminiscent of Noah's Ark.
Oops, I assumed you saw the movie. I guess I should have put in a spoiler warning. If your next article is about the afterlife, then you might want to set some time aside to watch Guardians 3 soon because there is a near-death/afterlife scene in the film. I've seen the movie 3 times and that scene almost brings me to tears. There is also a part when a certain character peacefully transitions into the next life making a reference to seeing something serene. That was tear-worthy for me as well. The type of characters who have these experiences is kind of remarkable when you think about it, but I will leave you to discover that for yourself.
Don’t worry about spoiler alerts! That’s not the way I watch movies that have been out for so long! I’m very happy to know this. FWIW, the second Guardians movie, although I don’t like it overall, has what may be the only scene in the entire MCU that legit brings tears to my eyes: the Ravagers showing up to posthumously honor the disgraced Yondu. It pushes three of my buttons at once: redemption, respect for the dead, and people putting aside differences when it matters most.
Another well -written article. Something that I think is worth pondering: I have questioned non-believing co-workers about how everything was created if there is no God. Then they always retort with the question of how God was created. I tell them that God was never created; God has no beginning and no end. They say that they can''t understand that.
So... where did Arishem come from? I don't think it says anywhere in The Eternals film that he is an uncreated being outside of time like God is. It seems that he didn't create the whole multiverse, but the universe of Earth-616 (a.k.a. the MCU). Perhaps we won't get a definitive answer.
This article is very similar to one you wrote for The National Catholic Register a few years ago, which inspired me to buy and read The Abolition of Man by C.S. Lewis (my favorite writer). Thank you for that, sir.
Something is eternal! Either a) matter and energy are eternal, or b) there is an eternal quantum vacuum with specific properties and potencies capable of producing matter and energy with just the right qualities and attributes needed for a dynamic yet stable universe in which life can arise, or c) there is an eternal quantum vacuum with infinite potency, capable of producing an infinite multiverse of universes with every possible set of qualities and attributes, from those that are too unstable to those that are too inert, and we happen to inhabit the multiversal lottery winner with “just right” conditions for life, or d) matter and energy and potency have their origin in an eternal reality of another sort altogether.
There seem to be good scientific reasons for saying that matter and energy as we know them are not eternal, and to posit an eternal quantum vacuum with the specific properties and potencies to create a universe like ours only pushes the question back a step (why these specific, highly favorable properties?). The infinite potency multiverse quantum vacuum idea … I hope to get to in a future installment!
The Celestials are described only as “coming”; no word on how or from where. In the comics they are the creatures of an entity called the Fulcrum, whose relationship to the One-Above-All is unknown. Both are known to be represented as Jack Kirby.
You have a good memory! I am indeed incorporating ideas from that Eternals piece, in which I first formulated “Never trust The Man” as the key MCU idea, into my larger thesis here. You may recognize ideas from a future installment as well. So glad that I brought The Abolition of Man to your attention (and that I didn’t recycle that joke in this piece)! Lewis’s thought is part of my DNA at this point; my intellectual tool set was profoundly shaped by his writings from a young age.
Hello! As an avid MCU and Spider-Verse fan, I've really enjoyed your evaluation of multiverse storytelling here and the big question of whether or not it leaves room for God. I have a few talking points/questions:
- What do you make of the MCU's afterlife? We've seen the Ancestral Plane in Black Panther, Valhalla (briefly) in the post-credits scene of Thor: Love and Thunder, and a take on the Egyptian afterlife in Moon Knight (and some further explanation). From what I know, it all seems to boil down to a mix-up of "whatever religion you are, you have your afterlife" and no one thinks twice about it. Knowing that an afterlife does exist, though, while Arishem is the supposed "creator" of the universe does raise some questions in my mind. In the MCU, the Celestials are definitely physical beings (yk, one's about to be born out of Earth), so I'm not entirely sure how he could have created a spiritual afterlife. Maybe this will be cleared up? Not sure.
- Another piece to the puzzle I find interesting is Ms. Marvel. While there's not a lot of focus on the subject, the MCU does acknowledge and support the idea that Islam (and, therefore, people who believe in an all-powerful God) exists in-universe and that the Khan family isn't ridiculous for actively believing and praying. I think there are even a few fleeting jokes in The Marvels about praying for safety during the third-act finale, and it's ambiguous if there's an impact. Regardless, the family does finish the film all in one piece, so . . . Anyway, there's not an extensive discussion of it, but at least the MCU does acknowledge somewhere that believing in the all-powerful, Judeo-Christian God isn't ridiculous. That is, until She-Hulk and Deadpool make us look stupid by pointing out the fact that the MCU is just a huge entertainment franchise and then we question why we care to answer these questions so much in the first place ("I'm the Marvel Jesus!" - Deadpool)
- I highly recommend watching as much of What If . . .? as you can. The first season has an interesting exploration of the multiverse and asks the question of whether there should be multiversal interference. The second season is also the first piece of MCU media to my knowledge that actually touches upon the "incursion" idea introduced in Multiverse of Madness.
Thanks! I can't wait to read the next installments!
Thanks for the thoughtful comments, Ronan! FWIW, my thoughts on the MCU afterlife are coming! I think you are largely right about MCU afterlife relativism—with notable exceptions, like the poor last worshiper of Rapu played by Christian Bale in Thor: Love and Thunder, who becomes the God Butcher! Rapu laughs in his face and tells him that his hopes for reward in the afterlife are vain. Why is Valhalla there for Jane Foster but the paradise that Rapu’s followers believe in isn’t there for them?
Daredevil (despite his limited MCU presence so far) is Catholic, and Steve Rogers appears to be Protestant (a reasonable guess made official by the code on his dog tags!), so Christianity exists in the MCU. Ms. Marvel is Muslim, and Moon Knight is Jewish. So there’s some representation from every strand of Abrahamic religion. Thankfully, “the big JC” does NOT appear in the pan-pantheon of deities seen in Omnipotence City, which means one thing as a business decision, but can be interpreted in different ways as a storytelling decision…
And yes, I am now really regretting starting this series with no familiarity with the What If…? series (the comics, I know well, from back in the day at least).
I hope I don't come off as nit-picky., but you might want to be more careful when referring to Our Lord as "the big JC." I know you don't mean it that way, but some would consider that flippant and even irreverent (I personally know such a person). You are a Catholic deacon after all, so please try to be more conscientious. Thank you.
P.S. I hope you don't mind all the comments I have posted for this article. I guess I had a lot to say.
I welcome all your comments, Christopher! I’m working really hard on this series, and it’s gratifying as a writer for a reader to be that engaged with his work and the subject matter.
I agree that “the big JC” is a flippant phrase, and one I would never use in ordinary conversation! In this specific context, I meant it to evoke, not my own idiom or way of thinking, but how agnostic filmmakers like “Thor: Love and Thunder” director Taika Waititi might think about including Jesus in a pan-pantheon of deities in Omnipotence City. (I added scare quotes to the phrase to make that a bit clearer.)
Great comment! Thank you for mentioning the praying in The Marvels. I was delightfully stunned when I saw that in the film. However, I haven't seen Ms. Marvel's series or Moon Knight or the second season of What If... (even though I wanted to). I also didn't see She-Hulk's show or Deadpool's movies but I know that kind of meta humor is from their comic books. As for Deadpool's comment about being "the Marvel Jesus," there's just no excuse. It's stuff like that that makes me glad I avoided his films. I'm still wrestling with whether or not I will be seeing Deadpool and Wolverine.
I also wanted to mention the spiritual elements in Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3. There's the High Evolutionary, a villain that will do anything to create the "perfect being", who angrily says that there is no God so he had to step in. There's also the (questionable) use of imagery from the Sistine Chapel when Adam Warlock saves Star-Lord. Even my non-religious friend (who was raised Catholic) remarked that the animals fleeing into Knowhere to safety was reminiscent of Noah's Ark.
Oh dear, and GotG 3 is the one of the series I haven’t seen!
Oops, I assumed you saw the movie. I guess I should have put in a spoiler warning. If your next article is about the afterlife, then you might want to set some time aside to watch Guardians 3 soon because there is a near-death/afterlife scene in the film. I've seen the movie 3 times and that scene almost brings me to tears. There is also a part when a certain character peacefully transitions into the next life making a reference to seeing something serene. That was tear-worthy for me as well. The type of characters who have these experiences is kind of remarkable when you think about it, but I will leave you to discover that for yourself.
Don’t worry about spoiler alerts! That’s not the way I watch movies that have been out for so long! I’m very happy to know this. FWIW, the second Guardians movie, although I don’t like it overall, has what may be the only scene in the entire MCU that legit brings tears to my eyes: the Ravagers showing up to posthumously honor the disgraced Yondu. It pushes three of my buttons at once: redemption, respect for the dead, and people putting aside differences when it matters most.
Another well -written article. Something that I think is worth pondering: I have questioned non-believing co-workers about how everything was created if there is no God. Then they always retort with the question of how God was created. I tell them that God was never created; God has no beginning and no end. They say that they can''t understand that.
So... where did Arishem come from? I don't think it says anywhere in The Eternals film that he is an uncreated being outside of time like God is. It seems that he didn't create the whole multiverse, but the universe of Earth-616 (a.k.a. the MCU). Perhaps we won't get a definitive answer.
This article is very similar to one you wrote for The National Catholic Register a few years ago, which inspired me to buy and read The Abolition of Man by C.S. Lewis (my favorite writer). Thank you for that, sir.
Something is eternal! Either a) matter and energy are eternal, or b) there is an eternal quantum vacuum with specific properties and potencies capable of producing matter and energy with just the right qualities and attributes needed for a dynamic yet stable universe in which life can arise, or c) there is an eternal quantum vacuum with infinite potency, capable of producing an infinite multiverse of universes with every possible set of qualities and attributes, from those that are too unstable to those that are too inert, and we happen to inhabit the multiversal lottery winner with “just right” conditions for life, or d) matter and energy and potency have their origin in an eternal reality of another sort altogether.
There seem to be good scientific reasons for saying that matter and energy as we know them are not eternal, and to posit an eternal quantum vacuum with the specific properties and potencies to create a universe like ours only pushes the question back a step (why these specific, highly favorable properties?). The infinite potency multiverse quantum vacuum idea … I hope to get to in a future installment!
The Celestials are described only as “coming”; no word on how or from where. In the comics they are the creatures of an entity called the Fulcrum, whose relationship to the One-Above-All is unknown. Both are known to be represented as Jack Kirby.
You have a good memory! I am indeed incorporating ideas from that Eternals piece, in which I first formulated “Never trust The Man” as the key MCU idea, into my larger thesis here. You may recognize ideas from a future installment as well. So glad that I brought The Abolition of Man to your attention (and that I didn’t recycle that joke in this piece)! Lewis’s thought is part of my DNA at this point; my intellectual tool set was profoundly shaped by his writings from a young age.